| Posted: 02 Apr 2007 16:31 |
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I liked the alternate worlds concept as well. Do you ever see the show Sliders. I have to think the creators of the show were thinking of the DC universe when they made that show. It focused on all the endless possibilities of alternate universes. It was good for at least the first couple of seasons.
The annual Justice League/Justice Society meetings were always cool in the JLA books. My favorite was a story that arced between All-Star Squadron and the JLA book in the 80's. It featured time travel as well, and the bad guy's name was Per Degation. Now you know where I get all this Time-Rider stuff from.
So did you ever read the All-Star Squadron?
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| Posted: 02 Apr 2007 16:50 |
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Only an issue or two..By that time I pretty much curtailed my comic book reading. Only sampled an issue now and then.
I still have stacks of comics, never read them though. The last thing I read (other than sampling Time Rider) that was comic book related was the hardcover novel "IT'S SUPERMAN!" by Tom De Haven.
Its a helluva read and I couldn't put it down.425 pages and I read it in two days. That shows you how caught up I was. Lost a lot of sleep.
The story is the re-telling of the Superman myth, but in a completely original fashion. It takes place in the 1930's. Smallville is a small country town, and Clark REALLY IS a country boy. The story is more about characterization than typical super hero fare, and Clark doesn't actually become Superman till late in the story, and even then the tale is not all about rock em' sock em' action.
But I truly enjoyed the book and made it a point to get the author's address to let him know.
I highly recommend it.
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| Posted: 02 Apr 2007 17:40 |
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It's Superman sounds interesting.
This the cover?
So it's like a regular novel no pictures, huh? I like the concept. That's one reason I think DC needs Earth 2 to have some connection to the original Superman story where Superman starts in the 30's. That's such a unique world during that period. I'm a huge fan of WW2 stories. That's one reason I loved the All-Star Squadron especially the first few issues that took place during the Attack on Pearl Harbor.
Here was an interesting WW2 Earth 2 story Superman Vs Wonder Woman It was one of those giant books they put out in the 70's.
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| Posted: 02 Apr 2007 17:58 |
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Yep, thats the cover..A regular hard cover novel. No pictures. A really great read.
DC is trapped, and always has been editorially speaking, in "linear" thinking.
They cane up with the multiple Earths concept to deal with continuity issues, then came up with multiple "Crisis" type series to deal with the NEW continuity problems they created handling the multiple Earths.
Not to be insulting, but they were being stupid, and taking themselves too seriously.
For instance, I see no reason why Earth 2 couldn't co-exist, but it doesn't mean Earth 2 has to be at the same point in time as Earth 1.
In other words, it could be the 1930's or 40's on Earth 2, while its 2007 on 1.
Thats just an example, but it opens a door for an avenue of imagination.
Continuity for DC at this stage of the game is a moot point anyway. The keep rebooting everything these days as often as a change of underwear.
I still think they have some kind of weird grudge against all those classic characters. Its weird.
But the Tom De Haven Book, if you get the chance to pick it up, its worth the effort. It has its slow spots, but be ready to be transported back to the 30's and old time gangsters and riding the rails.
Just a great story.
Got things to do, catch you later.
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| Posted: 02 Apr 2007 19:07 |
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Quote:
I see no reason why Earth 2 couldn't co-exist, but it doesn't mean Earth 2 has to be at the same point in time as Earth 1.
In other words, it could be the 1930's or 40's on Earth 2, while its 2007 on 1. That's an awesome thought. These things go in cycles to some degree. What would you think if DC suddenly reversed everything that had happened during the Crisis on Infinite Earths and restored everything back to it's original state? I'm thinking that might be pretty cool to have a reinstatement of past continuity, and maybe everything that happened after the Crisis really occurred on another seperate Earth.
I do like Shazam being on the same world though, but I could go either way on that one I guess.
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| Posted: 02 Apr 2007 20:14 |
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Well, my point is when it comes to DC's editorial decisions, creatively speaking, where you're limited only by your imagination, they tend to want to wear blinders, and only function withing a narrow margin.
I don't why. I stopped caring.
I just don't put up with it anymore. I'm not that desperate for comic book entertainment, and if I were, I could write and illustrate my own story to my liking and not fool with a resource that is constantly trampling on and discarding the best parts of characters I grew up with.
Who needs the aggravation?
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| Posted: 02 Apr 2007 21:00 |
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I guess I'm too big a kid at heart to ever quit reading comics. Not when there's always the 25 cent box at my local comic shop to catch up on books without going broke.
So when did you start reading comics anyway. Like about what year?
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| Posted: 02 Apr 2007 21:58 |
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Well, I tell you what. I'll mention the names of titles I held in my hands and read when they were NEW, and that'll give you a general idea about when I started reading.
"Blackhawk", "Challengers of the Unknown", "Rip Hunter...Time Master", "Doom Patrol", "Sea Devils", "Journey into Mystery with Thor", "Strange Tales", "Tales of Suspense"(some of these Marvel titles made transitions into Super hero comics, I just don't remember which ones save for Thor) , "Tales to Astonish", "Metal Men", "Adam Strange", First issue of the Fantastic Four, First issue of Spiderman, first issue of XMEN, first issue of Ironman, first issue of the Hulk, first issue of The Avengers.
I even read a few Charlton Titles. DC owns the characters now, but back then Blue Beetle and Captain Atom were Charlton properties.
For a while Charlton tried to imitate Marvel. The Mighty Crusaders were a watered down version of the Avengers.
So as you can see, I started reading a LONG TIME AGO..
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| Posted: 03 Apr 2007 15:07 |
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Ok the first issue of the Fantastic Four and Spider-Man huh. That would have been beyond awesome to have read the originals! The way you were talking about being old I thought you might have been a kid during the golden age in the 40's.
I have a couple of the relaunch efforts of the Mighty Crusaders. I used to read some of them here and there as a kid. I think the character I most enjoyed was the Shield (think that's his name, dressed patriotically), but for some reason it seemed like they had two Shields. Do you know what the deal is with that?
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| Posted: 03 Apr 2007 17:47 |
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No, not really. When I used to read the Mighty Crusaders the Shield was pretty much a knock off of Captain America. Captain Atom was my favorite in the Charlton line, though I did read the Fly occasionally.
Speaking of reading the old Spider-man comics, its a tribute to Steve Ditko that to this day, his way of drawing Spider-man poses, in action, or crawling walls, web-swinging/flinging, etc. has been copied from one generation to the next, and now in films.
I think the artists behind these characters sometimes get the short end of the stick.
I don't think a lot of Marvel characters would have caught on so quickly if it hadn't been for the dynamic artwork of Jack Kirby to catch the eye.
I liked Ditko's artwork, but I hated the way he drew faces. He drew a person's face so as it looked like the features were slightly pressed up against a glass window. I don't know how else to describe it. It was distracting.
The best Jack Kirby's artwork looked was on Thor when inked by Vince Colletta.
But Jack's work stood out on practically everything he did. On the Fantastic Four it was phenomenal. Avengers, and ESPECIALLY Captain America. To this day, no one, absolutely NO ONE, can put the energy into Cap or draw him so dynamically as Jack Kirby could. When he left the book, I tried to stay with it, but other artist's attempts were laughable by comparison. (I'm thinking of Gene Colan in particular when I say laughable).
I stopped buying Captain America solely because artwork, no matter who was doing it, it never measured up to the standard set by Kirby.
Its the one bone I have to pick with Stan Lee. Sure, he had his hand in the process, but deep down I'm absolutely positive if he didn't have the talents of people like Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko when he started, it could have been a completely different story for Marvel comics in its beginnings.
Stan Lee to this day owes these guys a debt of gratitude that can never be paid, and he should always mention these guys and lend them the credit due when speaking publicly.
He only does it sparingly, and thats not enough.
Truthfully, Lee isn't the sole creator of Spider-man, or most of the Marvel line he claims to be.
Jack's gone, and after a long standing feud and legal wrangles with Steve Ditko, Lee finally begrudgingly gave Ditko equal billing on the creation of Spider-man, but in personal interviews he leaves Ditko out.
Characters officially credited to Ditko's creation are, Spider-Man, Dr. Strange, the Question, Shade and The Changing Man.
Jack Kirby originally co-created Captain America with Joe Simon. Lee wasn't involved. Captain America was incorporated into Marvel continuity.
Officially, Kirby is credited with co-creating/designing many of the Marvel characters and providing layouts for new artists to draw over.
I don't know if it was egomania or greed on Stan Lee's part, but he just didn't like to share credit where credit was due.
Kirby continued to expand the medium's boundaries, devising photo-collage covers and interiors, developing new drawing techniques such as the method for depicting energy fields now known as 'Kirby Dots', and other experiments.
He grew increasingly dissatisfied with working at Marvel.
Reasons for this dissatisfaction, including resentment over Stan Lee's prominence, a lack of full creative control, anger over breaches of perceived promises by publisher Martin Goodman, and frustration over Marvel's failure to credit him specifically for his story plotting and for his character creations and co-creations.
The end result was Kirby left Marvel for DC and created the Fourth World continuity.
Well, its all water under the bridge now.
Old news, old days, a bygone era.
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| Posted: 03 Apr 2007 18:56 |
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Interesting perspective, creative types seem to always have problems with who gets credit for what. I can definitely see Stan Lee needing all those talents to have gotten Marvel going the way it did in the early days. I still think old Stan is cool, but the other guys deserved some credit too like you said.
I think Dikto's work on Spider-Man was the best other than that I've never really been a huge fan of his work. Of course his Spider-Man stuff I read originally in the Marvel Tales reprint books.
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| Posted: 04 Apr 2007 00:39 |
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well it may be just a wet dream for the webzines, but make it hip, make it it, make it scene boy.
__________________The Flaming Carrot,the crazy version of batman!
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